This interview with Nick Orlando of Evoken features questions by U.
Amtey
For those of you who are unfamiliar with Evoken, you are missing what is
possibly the best doom band in this country, and easily one of the most
powerful purveyors of aural desolation in the music scene. Evoken is really the
only doom band in the world that actually makes me feel inspired when listening
to their mournful, beautiful melodies, and I had been looking forward to
interviewing them for quite some time. Bands like this are very rare. After a
great deal of wrangling, trading emails, and (on my part) harassment, I have a
lengthy series of questions and answers to offer you, our persistent readers. I
hope you enjoy it, and remember, if your curiosity is sparked, to at least do yourself
the favor of listening to this great assemblage of musicians. You won't regret
it.
- U. Amtey
First off, I would like to introduce the readers of this interview to your
band and give them a clearer picture of your sound, your personal history, and
your progress in the scene so far. I am not interested in detailing a long
biography of your band - rather could you tell me how you, personally, became
interested in metal music, how you started on the path towards Evoken, and what
influenced your decision to play in the style that you are now exploring? Are
there any specific concepts or ideas that your music revolves around? What made
you decide to pick up a guitar and start playing? How did you meet the other
guys in the band? Was everyone intent, in the beginning, on the style of music
that Evoken now plays? Do you work on any other projects outside Evoken, or
does all of your energy go into this one band?
I became
interested in metal music way back when my older sister bought Metallica's
"Ride the Lightning"....at that point i already had a couple of Judas
Priest, Black Sabbath, and Iron Maiden albums....but nothing quite like that. I
knew i wanted to play heavy music after i heard "Fight Fire With
Fire". A couple of years later i got my first guitar and that was it, the
path was obvious. While i was in Putrifact in 1991, i had gotten the 2nd
Disembowelment demo and that completely crushed me...it was exactly what i
wanted to do with my own band. I already had their first demo and it just was
an entirely new thing they were doing. After Putrifact, i put out various ads
in the paper and slowly but surely found the right people who also loved the
same music and had the same visions of what the band should sound like. Our
intentions from the beginning were to write the heaviest, darkest, most
desolate stuff we could write. I am currently the only member in the band that
has another project outside of Evoken...and that is my death metal band
Funebrarum.
Please
explain the song writing process that Evoken uses in the composition of your
material - is there a specific method or pattern that you find yourself
following again and again? Who is mainly responsible for the music, or the
lyrics? Does it take a long time in the rehearsal room to carve out the
architecture of each song, or has it become a spontaneous process now, with
each member of the band adding ideas? Are there ever arguments about how the
music should progress, or about the place Evoken has in the world 'doom' scene?
What makes Evoken different from other bands playing this style of music?
Most of
the material is written when we are all together at practice. Spur of the
moment stuff usually turns out the best. Me and Dario write most of the music
but John and Steve also contribute now and the songs are then composed by all
of us.We usually take more time with the composition/flow of the songs...making
sure everything fits together well and finding the sections where guitar &
keyboard melodies should go. It's better that way as opposed to when the first
album came out, when i would write just about everything. We usually don't
argue too much in regards to the music...it's a democracy, so if someone is
opposed to a riff we don't use it. Vince takes care of the lyrics now for the
most part, with me or John occasionally coming up with something. I think what
makes Evoken a bit different from most of the doom bands today is our ambient
music influence. It gives us a bit more of an obscure atmosphere...as opposed
to the usual sad/melodic doom. I personally don't find listening to Evoken as a
"sorrowful" experience; but more of a dark, haunting venture. Desolate...hopeless...bleak....are
good words to describe it. Of course, that's only my opinion...people can
experience it however they choose to. Not quite the cosmic horror of
Thergothon, the eastern, mystical feel of Disembowelment, or the simple wall of
death like Winter....but somewhere in between.
I know
that Disembowelment has been a powerful influence on Evoken - can you explain
exactly why you find their music to be so influential in your own writing? What
do you think is special about their material - what separated them from other
bands? Lastly, what exactly is it that is 'original' in their sound, why are
they so influential when other bands from the same 'scene' have fallen into
obscurity? Are there any other bands, past or present, that have been
influential in the creation of Evoken's sound? If so, why - and how have they
inspired you? Are there any specific works of literature that have been
particularly influential in shaping your concepts or lyrical direction?
Disembowelment
were the first band i had heard that actually had all the elements i wanted in
my own band in their sound. Super heavy guitars with those clean guitars over
the heavier ones....the vocal chants...the mysterious atmosphere....no other
doom band or any other band for that matter had their sound. Like some dark,
cavernous monastery in Tibet...and the chanting of hooded monks echoing above
the music. It still hasn't been touched upon by anyone else, nor do i think it
ever will. Our separate influences would slightly vary so it would be useless
to tell you what my personal influences are...but i will say Evoken as a whole
is influenced by Disembowelment, Thergothon, My Dying Bride, (old)Paradise
Lost, Type O Negative, Winter, Celtic Frost, Black Sabbath, and
ambient/non-metal stuff like Lustmord, Black Tape For A Blue Girl, Dead Can
Dance, Lycia, Monumentum, Portishead, etc...As far as the lyrics go, like i
mentioned before...our drummer Vince takes care of them for the most part now. I
know my lyrics and poetry are mainly influenced by Baudelaire, Poe, &
Lovecraft...the big 3 in my book, along with alot of 19th century French &
English stuff. Baudelaire's "Le Fleurs Du Mal" in my opinion is the
greatest work of literature there is, period.
A quick
question: what was the source for the cover art on your last album, 'Embrace
the Emptiness'? That's a really striking image, and it goes perfectly with your
music...also, were there any specific concepts at work behind the music on that
album, outside of the lyrics? Listening to it again, I've noticed that the songs
definitely progress in one direction towards the last song 'Curse the Sunrise'
- they just get slower and slower, and darker and more morose as the record
runs towards the end. It's almost like being on a journey, where the last song
just lets the music completely disintegrate into its separate elements...is
this just a reflection of the order in which you composed the material, or was
it planned this way?
My bassist
Steve found the picture in an issue of Time magazine. One day he brought it to
practice and we were all completely stunned by it. We all agreed it was the
perfect cover for our album. Its message is one we try to convey in our
music....despair, misery, desolation, loneliness, etc. It was taken in
Afghanistan a few years back. We did not plan to make it conceptual at
all....we did take time to put the songs in the order we felt they would sound
the best. I do agree with you though, the album naturally turned out to get
slower and darker as it went along.
Let's
talk about doom metal, or doom death, for a second. Why do you think this style
of music is so powerful or emotionally resonant with doom musicians and their
listeners? Is it something about the pace of the music, the tempo, the
construction of the songs, or is it more profound? Are doom musicians more
interested in detailing or reflecting emotional states than anything else? You
always hear doom musicians say that this type of music must be played 'with a
great deal of feeling' - what exactly does that mean, examined critically? It
has always been my opinion that doom death is much closer to classical, or
symphonic, music than anything else - and at times it completely escapes the
boundaries of 'metal' music. Doom musicians also seem a lot more open-minded
than other types of musicians when it comes to incorporating new sounds or
instruments in their music. Could you comment on these thoughts?
Because of
its intensity, doom effects human emotions greater than any other music...at
least all those repressed, negative ones that some might hide away. I couldn't
answer for all doom musicians, but in our case it's basically a statement about
our outlook on life and existence in general. Not to say we're complete
misanthropic nihilists, ( although i do try my hardest )but it's always the
dark, negative stuff that we are attracted to and try to relay in our music. Doom
is the sadness, the misery filtered through the soul of the musicians playing
it and put to music. A reflection of what we hold closest to our hearts. There
is also plenty of positive...we are all relatively happy, normal people. We've
simply chosen to explore the darker side of life....which is suffering,
depression, misery, and eventually death. And like anything else, if you play
this style of music without a great deal of feeling for it, it's going to show
in your music. If your heart is in it....your music will have resounding
effects on the listener because it is all very real. The open-mindedness stems
from the fact that doom/death has different sub genres that are all undefined by
any "specific" sound. It is one type of music that definitely has
alot of ingenuity and creativity within its ranks. Thus without the burden of
outside expectations, a band sees more opportunities to experiment with various
instruments/sounds. Not to say that a band willing to experiment should worry
about what others think, obviously.
Do you
think it's necessary for doom musicians to follow a certain lifestyle outside
of their connections with music - to be surrounded by melancholy, for example,
every way they turn? Or is this just posturing, pretending? A lot of people
feel that musicians who play very sad or depressing music must be intensely
depressed themselves - this isn't true, is it? Are there just certain types of
musicians who are better at expressing melancholy than others? Does Evoken
reflect, in any way, the personal lives of the musicians involved - in other
words, has there been real-life inspiration for these tales of woe? For you,
personally, how does it feel to play music that is so utterly despondent? Is it
a relief - a catharsis - for you, or does it weigh on your mind at times? Do
you ever feel an urge to play music that is more aggressive?
I don't
think it is really necessary to be a depressed individual to write this kind of
music...although i'm sure in alot of cases it may be so. Totally honest
emotions put to music. But certain people just have a flair for writing really
depressive music just as certain people can churn out aggressive/slam
music...it doesn't mean they are the exact same person inside. I for one can
get very depressed sometimes...but picking up my guitar and writing riffs is
the last thing i think about doing when i'm feeling down. My depression creates
a very apathetic state, where i just sit there and rot...not wanting to do
anything at all. It's more about connecting those intense feelings of sadness
to your music and expressing them as such....the music should be true to your
feelings but i don't think it must be played by utterly depressed maniacs. We
all have depression sometime or another. Evoken to me is total catharsis....it
actually makes me feel better playing this music because it is what i love the
most. There are alot of personal emotions tied to the music so it is always a
relief to me when i play our music. For the aggressive side, i have my death
metal band Funebrarum. That is more than enough for unleashing the demons.
Doom
death, or even the more traditional forms of doom metal, have never really been
widely popular on any scale - these movements or styles seem to attract
specific types of people, and while there may be many listeners who are
interested in hearing doom bands, you rarely find people who listen exclusively
to this style - even though there are, for example, people who only listen to black
metal bands or death metal groups. Can you explain this? Is doom metal just too
intense, or emotionally stirring (or inversely, deadening) to listen to
regularly? Or is something else, in that it has never really become a 'trend'
and inspired a mass following? What do you think will have to happen before
doom metal becomes widely popular? Do you even want to see such a thing happen?
Doom metal
is too emotionally intense and extreme for most. Even black metal, which in
some cases is very extreme, is up-tempo and even uplifting sometimes. Doom goes
against all normal human emotions creating a totally negative atmosphere. When
you listen to doom, there is a constant oppressive feeling of sorrow and
negativity that never resides... ( at least in any good doom band ) Black
metal, death metal...its all aggression and rage...as extreme as they are there
is still positively in being able to release anger...to become heightened
physically by the up-tempos. In doom, there is just that claustrophobic layer
of misery that is relentless in its severity....no hope, no happiness. The true
anti-life. I personally don't see doom becoming popular anytime soon. Black
metal and death metal have both been watered down into easily digestible music
for the masses...making them both even more popular then they already were. Doom
has had its share of watered down, gay goth-o bands too but for some reason
even that garbage still has not become really big yet. It's just a cult form of
music and i guess it'll always be. I like it that way.
Evoken drawing out the
suffering...
I've
noticed, in the past, that over the last 10-15 years, for example, it seems
that a country or single national scene can only really support one truly
original doom band - you had Candlemass in Sweden, Bethlehem in Germany,
Disembowelment in Australia, Thergothon from Finland (?), My Dying Bride in
England, and now Skepticism in Finland...actually, to tell you the truth,
Finland seems to have more now. Can you explain this pattern? I know I am
leaving a few out, but the point I am trying to make is: seen in retrospect, it
often seems as if there wasn't enough room in one country for more than one
really original doom or doom death band - why is this? Is it just that there
are not enough followers to support more than one successful band? Or does one
band somehow exhaust the entire scene's motivation towards playing this kind of
music? Is it something else? Do you see this changing in the future? Do you see
there ever being a cohesive scene here, in this country, for example?
Doom sells
very poorly as it is, and also has the fewest fans compared to the other
underground scenes. There just isn't enough room for 1 or 2 doom bands to
co-exist, especially when your playing extreme doom/death. The lighter, more
gothic style of doom you play, the more accessible you become. You basically
choose to isolate yourself from the majority of metal fans when you choose to
play the style we have.The few who get it and feel it and love it are die-hards
and the rest push it aside because its too "boring" or too much for
them to handle.There is no appeal to it for most people because its never
become a trend or fad. You know how it is....the music becomes trendy and then
the market becomes flooded with 8,000 bands of the same style. Usually, there
at least a couple that are actually decent and stick around long enough; thus
creating a "scene". That's never happened with doom. If it ever did
become a cohesive scene, it would probably start right here in the U.S. We
definitely have the most doom bands out today. But it's not the same as it was
in 90-91...the glory days of the scene.When bands stuck together and
corresponded with each other. It's really everybody on their own as far as i
can see. We are guilty of this ourselves...we basically keep to ourselves and
do what we do. No use trying to make friends with people you wouldn't want to
call a friend in the first place. Of course, i'd like to see the scene become a
lot stronger than what it is now. This type of music definitely deserves alot
more recognition than it currently gets. But scene, no scene, it doesn't matter
to us...we're just going to keep on doing what we're doing.
This is
something of a difficult question, but please answer it as honestly or
completely as you can. The doom scene, and the doom death bands in particular,
have always seemed to have something of a love affair with the thought,
concept, and personal history of suicide. Can you explain this? What power does
suicide have to enchant, or inspire? Is it just a logical expression of the
intense desire these bands have to create music that is despair-ridden or
depressing? Why do you think suicide is so endlessly fascinating for our
culture? And connected with this is the concept of death, which seems to be the
central topic (if there is a true center) for doom death bands - what, in
addition, is so eternally inspiring in the thought of death? What relation does
Evoken have, if any, in connection to these two important ideas? Is doom death
the best (or most relevant) style of music for expressing the thoughts or
emotions that spring from a contemplation of death and suicide? If so, why?
Well
,death is a topic of some of our lyrics as well as alot of other doom
bands....but suicide is something we've never actually touched upon. I myself
have never been really fascinated with the concept of suicide other than the
feelings of utter dread and despair these people must have to cause them to
commit such an extreme and final act. Which is probably what makes suicide so
fascinating to most people....why would you purposely invoke your own oblivion
? I think doom plays into this from the perspective of lost love... Doom bands
have a fondness for singing about tragic stuff like dying brides, departed
loved ones,etc...and of course many suicides are caused by just such tragic
events. We like to keep our lyrics similar to obscure, dark poetry-more fantasy
than reality.
To
change the subject, let me ask you this: I know that you recently signed a deal
with Avantgarde Records out of Italy. Can you tell me how this deal came about,
who contacted who, and what this deal will offer Evoken? Were you having
problems with your former label, Elegy? What will Avantgarde be able to do for
you that Elegy couldn't? Will there be any chances for your band to tour in the
future? If so, which bands would you really like to go on the road with? Are
there any specific places you want to go to, outside of this country?
I had been
in contact with main man Roberto when the first MCD came out back in 94/95. Since
then, i had lost contact with him for a couple of years until he had sent me an
email complimenting us on "Embrace the Emptiness" and how much he had
enjoyed it. From there, we corresponded a bit more until he offered us a
contract in which we gladly accepted. They have some pretty classic releases
that we are all big fans of so the choice was relatively easy. The deal is for
2 albums; to be completed by 2002. We didn't have any problems with Rob &
Elegy Records. He is a cool guy and his label is definitely getting bigger each
year. It's just that a relatively unknown band such as us needs alot of
promotion...which we didn't really get. Money is a little tighter with smaller
labels, and i can understand that since he did give us a very generous amount
to record...we just didn't have the promotional push that could've really
helped us in the sales department. Chances of us touring are probably pretty
slim unless we sell a really god amount of albums. We'd love to do a small tour
someday...especially Europe ! That's a big goal of ours. I think with
Avantgarde's awesome promotion we could really do well. They cover all the big
zines...so who knows, perhaps a tour is feasible in the not so distant future. If
i were to pick the places to go, we'd play England, Italy, France, Finland,
Sweden, Norway, Germany... fuck, i'd love to go to Australia !!! I know it's
kind of unrealistic, but it's good to set goals. Most bands i'd want to tour
with are long gone, but i wouldn't mind hitting the road with Esoteric or
Monumentum...even Black Tape for a Blue Girl. Anything atmospheric would be
great.
Evoken
has recently completed, or is in the process of completing, a new album...can
you talk a little about this new work? How has Evoken's sound changed? Were
there any specific forms of evolution in the band or the song writing process? What
can people expect to hear on this new album - in what direction is Evoken
heading with the latest material?
To be
honest, our sound has not drastically changed. We've gotten perhaps a bit more
experimental on this one in certain parts, but overall it's still very much
what Evoken has been doing all along. Our sound is slowly becoming our own with
each recording, and we do attempt to put some new ideas in our music; we do not
want to become totally stagnant. But we refuse to change and become a totally
different band overnight and disappoint any of our fans. We were raised on
brutal old school death metal and doom and we will always have those influences
in our music. We refuse to compromise for anyone. Ignore brainless industry
fools who tell you that bands who fagged out are simply "maturing" or
"branching out"....it's just a matter of seeing green and all the
stardom that comes with it. There is such a thing as changing for the better,
without selling out or becoming weak crap.
And to
finish up the interview, please add anything extra here that you would like to
have our readers see.
Umesh, i'd
like to thank you for the interview....it was by far the most in-depth one i
have ever had the pleasure of answering. I apologize for the insane delays !! Good
luck with Endymion & Erebus....both of which i thoroughly enjoy and am a
supporter of. Support the doom scene & Keep it heavy !!!!!!!
DARKNESS FOREVER